should i make a new thread? i'm considerably more interested in the actual activities the watchtower society is/has been engaged in. this is just 18 pages of verbal judo and frankly, how do you show proof for a property of something that doesn't exist?
rather be in hades
JoinedPosts by rather be in hades
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398
Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?
by Recovery ini have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.
as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.
"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.
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398
Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?
by Recovery ini have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.
as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.
"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.
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rather be in hades
care to take on my argument? as i understand it, this is the place to post
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398
Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?
by Recovery ini have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.
as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.
"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.
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rather be in hades
i'm not so sure it is off topic.
we're talking about magic and miracles which is basically divine intervention.
what then, is the divine intervention used when appointing elders? is it a miracle or is it magic?
the wts says the organization is directed by holy spirit (aka divine intervention right?)
so what source does the false prophecies and child molestors appointed as elders come from?
if satan is the great deceiver, and the organization is deceiving people with false prophecies and i can't see HOW god would approve of a child molestor who was at that time being accused of such activities, being appointed as an ms, much less an elder.
especially considering god's attitudes towards two consenting adults who are not married having sex.
so if jehovah REALLY IS directing this organization, then he's a liar and ultimately responsible for every child harmed by these monsters
or
he and satan are mirror images of each other bc if satan is the great deceiver, and jehovah has deceived his organization countless times then they're both pretty darn good at spinning a yarn.
so going back to magic and miracles, we can either say that:
1. jwfacts was perfectly fine mixing around miracles and magic bc apparently satan and jehovah really aren't all that different
or
2. jwfacts really should have used magic bc this organization certainly isn't being directed by jehovah
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398
Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?
by Recovery ini have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.
as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.
"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.
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rather be in hades
coupled with the head witness for the jws admitting that the organization had been prophesying falsehoods and that they prefer everyone marching down the wrong path than for anyone to speak out, it REALLY seems as though the spirit directing the organization isn't god's spirit.
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398
Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?
by Recovery ini have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.
as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.
"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.
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rather be in hades
i still don't understand why your spirit directed organization is appointing child molestors as elders.
ifthe difference between magic and miracles is the source of the divine intervention, then it seems like your spirit directed organization is being directed from a very bad source...
care to explain?
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398
Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?
by Recovery ini have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.
as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.
"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.
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rather be in hades
13 Elders, for instance, are appointed by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) But not all spirit-anointed ones serve as overseers in the congregation. What are we to conclude from this? Simply that God’s spirit operates in different ways on members of the congregation.
- 12/15/11 watchtower pg 25so did holy spirit somehow decide that it was cool to appoint thsi gy as an elder? did holy spirit make a mistake? maybe it was the communication, like playing telephone. you know how the message always gets garbled in that game right? so maybe it was like the perfect holy spirit saying, "no don't appoint campos, he's a child molestor!" but the body of elders were praying and it sounded to them like jehovah was saying, "yo go'nd appoint campos, he's not a child molestor!" haahahasilly mistakes but damn it's too bad for the kids. oh wait, well since he might not have been abusing a child from the time he was an elder...maybe that excuses it?
*** bt chap. 5 pp. 42-43 par. 20 “We Must Obey God as Ruler” ***
Jehovah’s people today follow the apostolic pattern. Men recommended for congregational responsibility must manifest godly wisdom and give evidence that the holy spirit is operating on them. Under the direction of the Governing Body, men who meet the Scriptural requirements are appointed to serve as elders or ministerial servants in the congregations. (1 Tim. 3:1-9, 12, 13) Those who meet the qualifications can be said to have been appointed by holy spirit. These hardworking men care for much “necessary business.” For example, elders may coordinate practical help for faithful older ones who have a genuine need. (Jas. 1:27) Some elders are very involved in constructing Kingdom Halls, organizing conventions, or doing hospital liaison work. Ministerial servants care for many duties that do not directly involve shepherding or teaching. All such qualified men must balance congregational and organizational responsibilities with the God-assigned obligation to preach the good news of the Kingdom.—1 Cor. 9:16.call me crazy but it sounds to me like ministerial servants also happen to be appointed by holy spirit. i mean it says these people have to have god's holy spirit operating upon them. kinda nasty though. didn't realize god's holy spirit was a child molestor. i'm not sure how it is god's holy spirit decided to tell the elders that they shold try to blackmail mrs. dorman from getting justice for her son.
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398
Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?
by Recovery ini have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.
as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.
"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.
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rather be in hades
was it a miracle that gonzalo campos was moved up to ministerial servant and later elder, all while he was sodomizing children?
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398
Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?
by Recovery ini have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.
as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.
"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.
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rather be in hades
what does that have to do with the holy spirit directed organizations promoting child molestors to ms and to elder positions?
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398
Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?
by Recovery ini have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.
as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.
"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.
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rather be in hades
i'm still waiting on this which we know for sure actually happened
- 1977 - dorman was born
- 1980 - campos becomes an baptized publisher in 1980 (34)
- 1982 - campos molests a young member of linda vista congregation (39)
- 1982 - yong member tells his mother (40)
- 1982 - at this time, campos CONFESSES to the boy's mother (41)
- 1982 - -mother tells elders, elders investigate, campos confesses to elders, NO ACTION TAKEN (42-47)
- 1982 - elders decides it's a minor matter bc they feel as though the mothers of the two involved worked it out somehow (48)
- 1982 - elder knew molestation was a crime, that he may repeat the crime, yet no restrictions on service and cong not warned (49)
- 1982 - police never called and campos continued condcting bible studies (50-51)
- 1983 - WHEN DORMAN WAS 6 YEARS OLD, CAMPOS WOULD SODOMIZE HIM AFTER BIBLE STUDY. HE WOULD TAKE DORMAN TO WORK WITH HIM. DORMAN'S MOTHER THOUGHT THIS WAS FINE AS HE WOULD BE A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR HER SON. (100)
- 1985 - WHEN DORMAN WAS APPROX 8 YEARS OLD, THE ABUSE STOPPED...AT LEAST AT WORK...STILL SKETCHY IF THERE WAS MORE. (100)
- 1986 - linda vista splits into la jolla and linda vista. both halls comprised of members from the original linda vista (57)
- 1986 - inaugural elders for la jolla congregation were elders from linda vista
- 1986 - elders form judicial committee for campos as more sexal molestation allegations come forth (pg. 24 - 2)
- 1986 - reproved, not expelled, temporary restriction on some priveledges (pg. 24 - 3)
- 1987 - Dormans move to Illinois, victim was 10...
- 1988 - campos becomes a ministerial servant (36)
- 1988 - campos started molesting gamboa and continued molesting him until 1994, sometimes as many as 2-3x a week from oral to attempted sodomy, digital anal penetration. (83-86)
- 1993 - becomes an elder, eventually becomes congregation servant (37)
- 1994 - gamboa moves to arizona and campos can no longer abuse him (86)
- 1994 - the dormans learn their son had been molested by campos (60)
- 1994 - campos admits to molesting dorman AND THAT THE ELDERS ALREADY KNEW (61)
- 1994 - dormans ask the riveras who are believed to have a son molested by campos, riveras were already warned of campos (62)
- 1994 - elders say that if she pursues the matter a previous affair she engaged in would be disclosed to the congregation, also said that too many years had passed and there was nothing they could do (63)
how is it your spirit directed organization, with it's all knowing and perfect god, managed to allow that monster to rape children for DECADES.
the elders knew, he had confessed and yet, under prayerful consideration, he is made a ministerial servant IN THE VERY SAME YEAR HE STARTS SODOMIZING A 6 YEAR OLD.
are you REALLY going to brush that aside as imperfect men? i wonder how you'd feel if that was you being sodomized, or if that was your own child?
but wait! there's more...
- there's the question of time slips. according to the watchtower society in LEGAL PAPERWORK you do not have to turn in time (23 and 24)
- there's the qestion of the meeting for field service...nnecessary according to the watchtower society (25)
- there's the question of territories...unnecessary according to the watchtower society (26 and 27)
- the purpose of field service is to preach about the good news, NOT TO INVITE PEOPLE TO THE KINGDOM HALLS OR TO BEGIN BIBLE STUDIES SO AS TO ATTRACT NEW MEMBERS (27 AND 28)
take a good long look at those statements, made by YOUR organization.
you don't have to turn in time, you don't have to go to mtg for fs, you don't have to go to specific territories, you don't have to invite people to the kingdom halls or even TRY to conduct bible studies. think about that. they denied in COURT DOCUMENTS that witnesses have to ATTEMPT to conduct bible studies with others.
well that's strange bc i remember having to turn in slips every month, and try to find interested ones to study with and bring them in.
now why would they deny all of this stuff in a trial where one of their ministers was sodomizing a bible study's child? could it be to limit liability???
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Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd
by Recovery injwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
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rather be in hades
all these demands for unanswered questions which have been answered time and again by different sources.
and yet you keep skipping over a pretty simple question about why your spirit directed organization is knowingly hiding child molestors like gonzalo campos in it's ranks.
why is the holy spirit doing that?